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www.You have probably read sayings like “Online Poker is Rigged” dozens of times when browsing poker forums and blogs. But usually, people complaining about the riggedness of online poker are just losing players who were previously riding on the sunny-side of variance in online poker.
It’s therefore time to discuss the top 7 poker myths and to prove that online poker is not rigged.
1. Online Poker is Rigged Because There are Too Many Quads / Straight Flushes / Full Houses
In particular newcomers in online poker who have already played offline poker in home games are surprised by the accumulation of high-quality hands the online poker. As they rarely get to see straight flushes and quads in their home games, and as even a full house is a very special hand, they can quickly come to the suspicion that the online poker room is manipulating the cards.
Those players forget the following: while playing in a full-ring game home game, they will usually only play 30 hands per hour. In online poker, they are playing twice as much, 60 hands per hour. In addition to this, even beginners often play more than one table simultaneously. An advanced player, multitlabling six tables, will play twelve times more hands per hour as a poker player in live poker. Accordingly, he will get to see 12 times more quads, straight flushes and full houses.
2. Online Poker is Rigged Because There are Too Many Set-Ups
A set-up is when a strong hand is beaten by an even stronger hand. Often a player with a strong hand pushes all his chips into the middle of the table and then gets very angry when he loses against an even better hand. Relatively common set-ups include set vs. set, full house vs. full house or flush against full house.
Here again, as mentioned above, the reason for this “riggedness” is the same: as a player plays a lot more hands online, such set-ups are just more common.
3. Online Poker is Rigged Because Poker Sites Intentionally Generate Action
This point is a consequence of the above point: Some players are of the opinion (especially if they are losing players) that poker rooms intentionally generate action by assigning players strong hands with which they will go broke.
Poker rooms use RNG (random number generators). It is technically almost impossible to hand out cards so that “action will be generated” without distributing certain card combinations statistically too often. The RNGs are verified by independent audit firms regularly. In addition, many players store and analyze their hand histories – either with the built-in statistical software of the poker room or with tools such as the Holdem Manager. Statistical differences – even very small ones – would massively decrease confidence in the poker room if discovered. And poker rooms rely on the confidence of the players into their software. No poker room could afford such a manipulation becoming public without severely damaging its reputation.
Moreover, in poker tournaments like Sit and Go’s or Double or Nothing, the poker room gets the fee (the rake) in advance. The provider thus has no advantage from generating additional action – except that if a player busts early he might play another Sit&Go or DON. But here the poker room would profit much more if it just would raise the blinds faster.
4. Online Poker is Rigged Because Always Lose After Cash-Outs
Many poker players complain about this. They won some money playing Texas Hold’em, and as soon as they withdraw their winnings, the downswing begins. Those players complain in forums that poker room XY is rigged and that this is simply a trick of the poker room in order to make them deposit their money again.
This statement is of course nonsense. It is impossible for the poker room to associate the information about your cash-out with the board cards. Many poker rooms such as Betsson Poker use the system of master accounts and poker accounts. To cash your money out, you have to transfer it from the poker to the master account. Because you can transfer the money from there also to the casino or bingo site, it is impossible to know whether you have withdrawn your money completely or not. Furthermore, poker rooms such as Betsson or Doyles Room are parts of large poker networks. There is no way that these poker skins can transmit data about cashing-out players to the central software distributing the cards.
In addition to this, a disadvantage to one player would indeed imply favoring another player – how should a poker room do this?
It’s just the nature of Texas Hold’em that the variance is enormous in this poker game. This has nothing to do with “riggedness”.
5. Online Poker is Rigged Because Bad Players Get Good Cards
Certainly, you are familiar with this situation: you finally figured out who is the whale (a very bad player) at the table. You hold Ace-King and the fish calls with ace-three (suited!), he rivers the flush or makes a pair of threes and wins the pot. While this is unpleasant, this happens often: AKo wins a preflop all-in against A3S only in two thirds of all cases. If you lose against a fish in such a case, this has nothing to do with “Poker is rigged” – it’s just a mathematical fact.
6. Online Poker is Rigged Because I Always Lose with Pocket Aces
Many players at the tables follow the strategy of playing tight or even very tight. You might be one of these TAGs or Rocks at the tournament tables. When such a player finally gets a strong, playable hand he wants to collect more than just the blinds (which is the risk if he just makes a standard 3BB preflop raise). So he decides to limp his pocket aces in order to trap his opponents. This is obviously the wrong strategy. If our pocket aces limper plays against four other players (two players playing their top 20% hands, the small blind, who plays the top 50% of the hands plus the big blind who plays 100% of the hands), then American Airlines have only 55% equity. So our limper will lose almost every second time with his aces. As it is extremely difficult to fold pocket aces post-flop, there is an increased risk that he will lose all his chips because of his playing style. Online poker is not rigged, but players who do not follow the basic strategies will lose money.
7. Online Poker is Rigged Because Playing at a New Poker Room Always Stars with an Upswing
Switching the poker room won’t change the fact that variance in online poker is extremely high. Luck plays an important role, at least in the short term. Some players however think that switching to a new poker room will give them “better luck”. This is a myth and that cannot be explained objectively.
On the other hand, there are some advantages from signing-up at a new poker room:
- The motivation to play poker can increase
- The concentration and the willingness to play its A-Game is higher
- All poker rooms offer new players a welcome bonus with their first deposit. This bonus often amounts to several hundred dollars donated by the poker room
Have a look at our exclusive poker bonus offerings and codes – increase your ROI with a VIP signup bonus!
1. Online Poker is Rigged Because There are Too Many Quads / Straight Flushes / Full Houses
Here’s a recent experience on one of the top 5 poker site. The site claims that they use the same RNG for all poker games; freeroll, play and cash. While in a $500 freeroll with about 3,500 entrants that runs about 6 hours I had the following happen. I saw Quads show down 3 times on the table I was seated at, all in less then 15 minutes. What’s your explanation?
Hi Alan
The probability for making Quads is 0.024% for a single player. So you should make quads roughly every 4,200 hands. In a 10seated tournament, this will happen roughly every 420 hands or about once every 7 hours (assuming 60 hands/hour).
Although it happens very seldomly to see three times Quads within 15 minutes, this can happen. It can also happen to you that you play for 30 hours and never see Quads, but it will be more unlikely that you would consider this as “rigged”.
So from a mathematical point of view, this is just variance.
Marco, you can explain anything away with ‘variance’. No, the poker sites live off activity on their pages, activity = action = money for them. You won’t get action if you are being dealt hands according to probability. The amount of times people get set up against one another with flops and then suck out on the river is scandalous.
Hi Michael
Such a manipulation would be easily detected with tracking software. In poker, there’s no need to generate setups, they happen automatically.
Marco,
Actually, your calculation to make quads is grossly incorrect. It appears you used a calculation from a 5 card hand (as in 5 card stud).
In Holdem poker there are 7 cards from which to make a 5 card hand and therefore there are a total of 133,784,560 possible combinations of 5 card hands.
There is a total of 224,848 ways to make quads from those 7 cards. Making the percentage to get quads BY THE RIVER, 0.00168067.
Quads will be made once every 5950 DEALS, understand that is dealt DECKS, not individual hands.
You are assuming that each HAND is an individual deal as you say that in a 10 handed table you would see quads 420 times.
You are dividing the actual odds by 10 players, which is incorrect.
Regardless of how many players are at a table, quads will statistically be dealt once every 5,950 times (or once every 100 hours, not 7 hours).
Although it is possible that it will be dealt more, that of course is true. However the odds of seeing quads dealt 3 times inside of 15 minutes at the same table is a statistical improbability.
And of course, those odds are skewed more in online poker because of the fact that online poker is a computer generated game that fails to follow true statistical odds.
Seeing more hands in an hour does NOT answer the question, as regardless you can not change the odds that a particular hand will win, just because you see more hands in an hour.
In other words you are claiming that if I were to watch 10 tables, thereby seeing 600 hands per hour (at your calculation of 60 hands per hour), then I should see quads hit about once every 10 hours watching 10 tables at once?
Furthermore, any pair will win approximately 43% of the time by the river, therefore using the same calculation, 258 hands at showdown will be a pair, nothing higher.
I think anyone who has played online poker sees the fault in that statistic. As flushes and straights do tend to hit more often and not often do you see a pair only win.
I left a link in the address there for the Wizard of Odds site so you could further study some of the statistics in the game.
Good Luck,
Todd
Hi Todd
Thank you very much for taking the time to elaborate that probability. While I enjoy maths, I see that others like you are better in calculating probabilities and odds I should have visited your site before writing that comment. Great site btw!
Marco
Todd, I’m afraid your figures aren’t accurate at all. For a start 133,784,560/224,848 is 595 and not 5950. Also, it is pretty obviously true that the more players there are at a table the more often one of them will have quads. I’m not sure how you can seriously dispute that.
Man I took a 1.5 year break off playing poker all together and finally broke down and got a card a couple of months ago. I was lucky enough to make it to the final table at a 2.20 deep stack 6 handed game a few days ago. I took 5th place but quads came up at the final table 3 times and once during the tournament. Me and a friend sat down for months playing too back in the day and it got so sick to the point he actually folded a straight flush and buddy showed his higher sf. I also got 12 royal flushes and some being natural royals on poker stars under this same account name I am talking about. I’m not a genius and not going to waste my time trying to look the probability of all of this stuff randomly happening because a 5 year old would know better.
First your answers to the first two question on an absolute basis are acurate, the more hands played the more of each hand you will get. I think what most people are complaining about is not the absolute number but the percent frequency that these hands show up over a long term. On a long term percentage basis the hands you get playing ten tables should show up roughly the same percentage of the time as a home game at one table. The same with question 2, are they more frequent on a percentage total hands played or not. if not then there is your answer to both and it is a mathmatical number either they are more frequent or they are not.
Here is some actual data regarding this post:
http://intellectrush.blogspot.com/2010/12/busting-online-poker-myth-pokerstars.html
Thank you posting this link. Certainly you must have spent hours and hours with analysing the data, really great work, which confirms what I believe: online poker is NOT rigged.
To be the devils advocate (in favor of those who think it’s rigged), your article won’t convince them. I personally think, it’s not “rigged” but that it’s also not truly random as a real deck. I get that it’s about the quantity of hands and also the fact in real poker you don’t have too many donkeys or kids just staying in the pot.. so more folds in real life, meaning, less chance to see those awful beats.
But, I feel.. it’s not that online poker is “rigged” or cheating. It’s that, you must play into it’s style. Meaning, those bad beats that happen so often, just means, you have to be more willing to fold. Seems in real life, you a bit safer making that call.
Can’t tell you how many times I made a great hand, to raise big then get re-raised. But, does that mean it’s “rigged”??? No, it means you just fold. But in real life.. that same hand I’d be more confident with.
And this doesn’t need 6000 hands online to occur. It happens almost every session I play.
When you write, “It’s impossible…”.. this is a computer. I’m a computer science person.. it’s my field. NOTHING is imopossible. I can write code that knows when a withdrawal is made, flag it, store it in the user database, and upon dealing cards, detect flags, and having preset hand scenarios.. even if it’s millions or billions.. that can come out.
Again, it could be hard to detect because, really, it doesn’t matter if you know to fold.
But, what that means is your playing TO the game, not the other players (as much)
It can be done in such a subtle, tricky way, that you can NEVER prove it’s actually not truly random.
VARIANCE is like “insanity” in court cases… you can’t touch it. It explains things in a way that can never truly be discounted…
POKER is about intuition and feelings. The only true random poker would be a live video, much like the lottery shows the balls falling out of the dispenser.. but, of course that’s not a good solution.
So, even if it’s NOT rigged in any way possible, the mere feeling it MIGHT or COULD be could cause a person, mentally, to be hesitant to make a call.. it adds doubt, which kills the psyche involved in playing this type of game.
It’s about loosing when you are 90% favorit 18/20 times. Dosnt make sense, thats not variance.
It is rigged. I don’t even question it no more. I play live too and know these things happen live.. shoot tonight it happened big time.. I joked to the table “that hand looked so much like an online hand!” And of course, they all laughed knowing I was tongue-in-cheek. Even the regular players at casino don’t trust it. And they’re Asian, all them hard core sharks I talked to just do not trust it. Nobody does.
But to be honest, I still play online, I just play different. I wait until it’s “rigged in my favor”. I figured it out. But I know the type of ways it works. Like the poster said above, you play into the rig. You realize it’s rigged. Then, duh.. use that to your advantage.
I mean think about it. It’s rigged, so figured out how it’s rigged, then play by that?!?! Easy peesy.
This is the ‘secret’ and why no pros or winning players will admit to it!
Oh and please oh please nobody put money in there. Just play freerolls and freebies for prizes, you can find a few that offer free play.. just gotta get past the ‘donks’ (i hate that word) but take advantage of free games with cash or prizes. Why support them??? Take advantage of them just like they do with us. If I put money in there, I would hope proof comes, then I’m suing the heck out of them.
Also, consider this. Live, the best players often are really aggressive, but they play big hands too. Lot of times they are lucky, but they play it right while they have it.. and that affects their image throughout the game.
If a player is more tight live, because they’re just more intimidated by those guys.. well online they could be more brave, it’s just like online dating, a LOT easier to be confident and daring than you are live…
They KNOW people are like this. They know people who are tight and play cautiously live (IE–not as good live) are more likely to play aggressive online.
(In other words, that voids the actually aggressive players who do well live.. because now, “everyone” is playing like them)
So, knowing this, they need to put some control into it, as some form of .. I dunno, well a way of saying “hey buddy, you think you’re aggressive online eh? Well.. I’ll show you” and this is why you get all these ridiculous bad beats.
It’s a slap in the face. That same hand would’ve likely held up live…
But I think, these people are sort of angry that people who weren’t as good live now go online and are suddenly good.
Just like with the ‘online dating’ example, it’s as if the ‘confident pretty’ people are angry that ‘ugly losers’ go online and suddenly act and appear as confident as they do and actually GET the dates (snatching them away from those who would’ve in real life)
There’s some resentment there… and if “pretty confident” people controlled a dating site, would they then not want to add some control to keep these “fake confident losers” from snatching all their potential dates??
I’ve gotten AA 6 times in the past 6 hours only playing one table at a time. This shouldn’t happen first of all. I made big preflop raises and played aggressively every time and lost to trips 4 times and got folds on the flop the other two times. How do you explain losing 4 out of 6 times with AA
Hi Chris, I am sorry for you. But this is bad luck – or call it “variance”. But even with AA you have no guarantee to win a hand, as you had to learn the hard way.
chris, what about the other times u had AA and won say 6 out of 8 times,that is variance my friend statistically AA wil win much more than it’ll lose, if u have a poker program like holdem manager or pokertracker ull see u win much more often than not and if thats not the case its time u changed ur playing style
I played winner poker. Only 50,000 hands so not that many. Check these figures
AA allin pre WIN Percentage 28% Other Site 71%
AA slow play 28% I play 61%
KK allin pre 27% 68%
KK slow play 25% 49%
QQ allin pre 09% 39%
QQ slow play 42% 31%
Best hand Pre 17% 49%
Best hand After flop 14% 61%
Best hand on turn 19% 79%
All races 11% 54%
Now i know 50K isn’t that many hands, but all the talk about variance doesn’t explain these stats.
I play another site, 170,000 hands and all stats there are on the right of WINNER stats. Does any else see an issue.
I wonder how much these rigged for action poker sites are paying buddy to post this bullshit that its not rigged. look at the odds of these hands that are coming over and over. An extra 30 hands per hour or whatever does not make much effect to odds of quads and fullhouses which are very slim, you see them almost every hands. Here are some percentages:
Royal Flush (All Spades) – .0002%
Straight Flush (Any same suits)-.0012%
Four of a Kind (Quads)-.0239%
Full House (Boat) – .144%
Flush (all same suit)- .19%
Straight – .35%
Three of a Kind – 2.11%
Two Pair – 4.7%
One Pair – 42%
Don’t catch anything – 50%
Pokerstars and Full Tilt and most online sites are rigged to induce action, what are chances of two or three people hitting fullhouses and qauds coming 6 times within 40 hands, the statistics say its impossible. Yes it does happen once in while in live games, but not every couple hands like in pokerstars or full titlt. Definate rigged for action sites for u to get your chips in the middle, thats all it is folks. Montitor your hands played and see the reality of the scam of online poker. Play live poker, its true and its real and u wont be scammed.
Every time I see someone post about understanding variance, more hands are played, slowplaying good hands, blah, blah, blah, I can’t help but think ‘paid puppet’ of online sites!
We all get bad beats, we all get suckouts ourselves, and if luck wasn’t part of the game, every tournaments final table would be Ivey, Negraneau, Dwann, Chan and the like!
Even though luck will always play a part, online poker is based on a computer program called an RNG, and guess what, computer programs, at their essence, are programmed by human beings who can set any perameters they like, including actions based on circumstances to control the next circumstance!
Anyone who thinks that greed does not enter into online poker has their head in the sand! Where there is money to be made, there will be greed!
Increasing rake and increasing buy-ins by moving tournaments along are obvious results of this greed! They can spout all they want about audited RNG’s and to that I say, BS!
Okay, time for a couple of examples (and yes, we all have our stories!)
– Speaking of Quads – Quads 3 times in 8 hands – the same player at my table got quad 6’s THREE hands apart, and I’m flopped quad nines 5 or 6 hands later!
– Holding pocket 9’s, 3 players to the flop, the flop comes KK9! Great! 0.74% chance of flopping a full house on the flop! Hoping someone holds a K, and not likely they would have K9! Betting indicates that is the case, opponent has a K. Great right? If he doesn’t have the 9, which again, is not likely, only ONE card beats me, and that would be the other K for quads.
What falls? The K!!! And if that wasn’t enough, the river was a Q, and the 3rd player had AQ, for K’s full of Q’s, so he thinks he’s good too!
How do you go from a 97% + hand to the third best hand after the river….ONLINE POKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, MARCO, YOUR EFFORTS WOULD BE BETTER SPENT LOBBYING FOR ONLINE SITES TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER TO GIVE US A FAIR GAME RATHER THAN SPEW OFF ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THEIR VARIANCE, WHICH MANY HAVE DISPROVEN!
Oh, and if you’re wondering, I do reasonably well in live games, where a top pair wins on occasion, where a two pair hand makes good money, and where flushes and straights don’t turn up that often. I stick to micros online to pass the time, with a hope oneday that I would have confidence in these sites to move up to higher levels and save myself the gas money it takes to travel 90 minutes awasy for live action.
DO THE RIGHT THING!
How about going all in preflop with AA and getting called by some donk hand only for them to suck out on you? I had Q9 idiot reraise me all in, I insta-call with AA, Flop Q, turn 9, i lose. Limping in with AA? how about all in preflop with 1 caller getting crushed everytime with AA and long term losing on this hand. its rigged as fuck.
I’m playing about 11 years poker, the last 7 years online. I’m a winning player online or live poker cash our tour, but I don’t trust online games. Yes its true online play more hands than we do it live, but the combination of cards and 90 % small stack get a hand like AA AK pushes all in and beated with hands like 89 109 j8, its bullshit. But there are a little secret for online poker, if you want to win then u must play like idiot and like donk more risk easy calls and very loose aggressive, if you do that you have more chance to win at online poker. Example Pokerstars online intel school said set vs set (444 vs 888 example ) its 1 of 1000%. I see this every day and every hour, every one can win at online poker but it’s still rigged games the prices and every donk win tour. It’s just food for players to close they mounths.
Hey can you explain this. How come 9/10 times the shorter stacked guy wins his all in bet (pre flop) in sit in go’s? I understand all the other points made, but rarely does a sit and go last less than 3 minutes (super turbo).One time I had pocket kk and budy called all in with 10-8 off suit and beat me with a two pair. I believe in ‘if’ logic. I believe there is random ‘if’ scenarios generated for different situations. Any software developer knows what an ‘if’ statement is. Statistically poker stars and 888 are unfair and they are regulated for ‘fair and fun’ gaming. If you haven’t read the term ands conditions of the software you are using you shouldn’t be mad when you realize it’s rigged. The only way the software company makes money is if people keep playing. Why would they create software to do anything but that? I have lost a dece amount of money and also won a dece amount. What I cannot get back are the hours I spent playing. My example is not the only time short stacked players on sit and go have dominated the all in calls. It’s not fun or fair (fair can be argued) when you get a bully at the table and that’s where the software producer has attempted to create a better enviornment to keep people playing. If the same guy keeps bullying me out of chips before flop, I won’t want to play and really the software company loses then. Online poker may not be rigged but it is certainly regulated. My experience is no matter how many good hands you get, if you call the pre flop greater than 15% all hands, I promise you will lose in the long run.
Why are poker rooms then offering turbo games (so that players play more games during a session) when in turn they “protect” the shortstacks from dropping out of the tournament (so that players play less games during a session). Its far more probable that the shortstack just doesn’t win 9/10 times and that your perception is based on selective memory.
I don’t know how you can even discuss it. Of course online poker is rigged and you have to be pretty stupid to not see it. And obviously a lot of people are stupid. I can claim for sure that Planetwin365.com and Bet365 have rigged softwares, i made a video, observe the stats and so on. The only thing that i am angry is that there is nobody to take them in court and to prove that, because its obvious.
Full Flush Poker is absolutely rigged… Don’t bother…
Harvey2Facr I couldn’t agree more. FullFlush is the absolutely worst online room I’ve ever played with the most improbable hands winning routinely. The same players (probably roombots) push all in preflop with complete garbage to beat pocket AA, KK, QQ by sucking out str8s, flushes, boats by river. The worst.
Joker Stars
This article is either written by a retard or someone taking a nice backhander by one or many online poker sites.
You must think the vast majority of people that KNOW that online poker is ‘rigged’ are either halfwits or whingers.
I agree with many of the previous comments.
I’ve personally played poker regularly in bricks and mortar establishments for over 20 years and online for 15 years. I can tell you that the ridiculous setups and bad beats happen far far too frequently online for there to be any explanation other than it’s ‘rigged’. Obviously, that’s taking into account the fact that in online poker you play far more hands. The much used word ‘variance’ just doesn’t explain the volume of ridiculous setups and bad beats. Just this last week, in a MTT within the space of 10 hands I witnessed a straight flush vs quads vs full house vs nut flush, AA vs KK vs JJ preflop, straight flush vs full house vs nut flush. In 20 years of playing in a bricks and mortar environment, I have only ever seen one of these scenarios.
Obviously, it’s a business and as such, they try to generate as much revenue as possible. Therefore, the more money in the pot, the more rake they will take. Therefore, ‘action flops’ are the norm so many players catch a piece of it and put money into the pot.
As for the RNG being audited by reputable companies, don’t make me laugh. It’s in everybody’s interests (other than the players), for the online poker rooms to generate the most revenue possible.
Also, if you think about it logically, the pool of players on a site will shrink if it wasn’t ‘rigged’. The solid players will win the majority of the time and the donks will go skint. That’s not in the interests of the site owners. They want to keep the donks interested and thinking they have the chance of making a profit.
Anyway, I personally have had enough of the BS that happens on an hourly basis on jokerstars and have closed my account.
Hi Steve
Have you analyzed your hand histories with poker software like Holdem Manager? Do the objective numbers support your subjective impressions?
It’s actually astounding how obviously rigged these sites are!! I think something should be truly done about it. I’ve been playing poker for five years and easily dominate Live games, yet u had just had the worst couple of weeks known to man!
19/20 hands bad beats by outers on turn or river. That just isn’t statistically probable!! I fold majority of time, read the board, and will forfeit hands where needed, but hands that were 95% to win beat with 83 off on turn river when calling a reraise, or most recently, a player bragging about finishing me (he was low stack at 4th place tournament) on river against my two pair. And in the river he hits the one card possible to save him and give a straight.
Has anyone ever sued a site before. RNG is bullshit – unless it wa running 10% of the time monitoring every hand. Paid players sit on table for hours and are guaranteed to win bs pushes on outers when probability is close to 1%. With governing bodies in UK, this can’t be right to carry on…
Take my 10,000 hands as an example with 95% bad beats!!! It’s not possible!
Hi Player, sorry to hear that. But why should 888 let another player win and make you lose? They won’t earn more rake. So I’d say you were either unlucky or you didn’t realize that online games are much thougher than live games. And 10’000 hands is a very small sample size, anything can happen in 10k hands.
Agree with Steve… Bet you’re getting a nice little pot to try an persuade people it’s not rigged – clearly isn’t working by the amounts of comments disproving you!
Everyone know sites have house players to draw the money back in. Payoff = equal favourable hands to house players.
I’d say by this stupid comment of yours above, you either don’t know anything about online poker, or more likely, you work for 888!
I’ve dedicated most of my spare time during three years of my live to online poker, and I’ve played about 1 million hands. Otherwise it would have been difficult to build up this website. Unlike most people complaining about “rigged” poker sites, I have analysed those hands that I have played, without finding any irregularities, except for bad moves on my side.
So please upload your hand histories in a tracking software and post proof of that riggedness. Otherwise readers might think that you are just one of those 90-95% players who lose money in online poker. And those losing players typically don’t understand the concept of variance and are not aware that they just play badly. And in such cases it’s easier to blame the poker client for “riggedness” instead of admitting their lack of skill.
I’d love to be so sure of myself about those questions like so many posters above me. But the more I try to know whether poker is rigged or not, the less I know. I mean there are many reasons why rooms would want to rig the game, and why not? It’s not like anyone could actually stick their nose inside their complicated, proprietary, massive programs when rooms like PokerStars are incorporated in Malta, and some way of “rigging” the game could be impossible to see in the long run, because it may just look like variance (like starting with a cashin upswing to get the player addicted, only to immediately follow it by an equivalent downswing to “even” things out : the more equity between players, the more rake for the room).
But at the same time it sounds kinda tin-foil-hattesque, and I wonder whether it’s technically doable to rig the game in a predictable way when there are 10 players sitting at a table, each one with a different style, and the room trying to give down or upswings to each of everyone of them. What will the room do when upswing guy goes all-in against upswing guy prime? What if upswing guy folds all the hands when you’re trying to give him a straight at the river?
So yeah, as a matter of fact, I’d say I don’t know, even though I’ve spent quite a lot of time trying to find the answer. It must be convenient to “know” like so many people here do.
I will put it this way then, I also believe that these sites ARE rigged. Greed is the common denominator as the UB AP etc cheating scandals has plainly demonstrated. But lets take what you are saying as true. Then Poker is going to and is dying a slow painful death for the only 5% of online poker players that actually make money are math wizards that are using all kinds of HUDS and countless programs to eke out an edge playing countless hands and often making more money from rake back and site promotions than actual poker. Others are nosebleed players that use sheer aggression or again wizard math at specific games like heads up or super turbo etc. So the average player are in the 95% and is a total sucker to even try this online waste of time and money. The fact that these card games are being “solved ” is the proof that this cannot be fun anymore and we are being played and we ALL should NOT be encouraging these math and or computer wizards. In the end just play with your buddies or in casinos let the wizards get a real job and go solve mankinds REAL problems.
Online poker clearly isn’t rigged because these sites have shown great integrity in all their dealings, such as committing bank fraud and money laundering, as well as stealing player’s deposits to line their own pockets. Not to mention that they are located in remote islands, on top of superuser scandals, criminal indictments of their heads of the company, lawsuits by the US, etc.
The bottom line is that it would be incredibly easy to write a source code for a program to create action flops/turns/rivers to match up with the players’ hole cards. The reason that they would do this is to a) eliminate players from a tournament more quickly so that they enter another, generating another entry fee b) create the maximum rake in a cash game c) get players to deposit more money into the system, thereby generating more rake/entry fees.
It really is unbelievable some of the shit u see online compared to live. In live poker, u would be astounded to see some of the bad beats/huge hands that come up in the span of 20 minutes. But online it’s just another day at the tables.
I am more inclined to think that something is super fishy about the “RNG” of online play. I don’t think that the site specifically targets certain players to win/lose but I definitely think that the software creates action by putting out action flops/turns/rivers to match up with the players’ hole cards.
Watch magic612’s videos on youtube, it’s priceless shit and will show u exactly what i’m talking about.
888 is clearly rigged. As in, it does not have RNG for generating one and one card out of a deck.
You guys that say that there is hard to see a way to rig something so complex is thinking way too complex. The way 888 does it, is that it rolls who is going to be the winner of a hand (this will always be “fair”) and then roll out a random SET of cards that will ensure this result.
You don’t have to play much at 888 to start to recognize the same patterns of tablecards. The set is made on flop, quad on turn. St8-draw on flop, last needed card on river. Overcard on flop, trips made on turn etc.
The only advantage “pros” or strong players have, is winning a lot more hands than donks, by making the rest fold. All-ins can never be trusted and are indeed “rigged” and should be avoided at all costs.
As for motivation why let one player win rather than the other is obvious – have a bigger pool of money circulating, “taxing”, and keeping a wider range of players interested in spending many hours playing. It does not require THAT big difference of skill level in poker, and one player will statistically always win against a worse player given a certain number of hands.
Hey there. I’m pretty much certain that online poker cards do not fall 100% randomly. I have some experiences that will boggle your mind. I am going to share what I can recall, and I am not going too embellish any of my stories. They will ALL be 100% true. I have NO reason to lie, I am a WINNING player, by a long shot. I am writing this in hopes to get something done about the way the cards fall online. Here are my stories. Don’t be surprised I have seen it all, I know the patterns, why certain stacks win hands they shouldnt even be involved in, etc etc. I will do my best to remember all of it. I have been playing for 15 years. I don’t play for cash anymore because I’m sick of getting raped. These are listed as I recall them. Not in order or anything.
1. Poker Stars.
They have 3 seat tourneys, you know, you spin the wheel, the prize comes up, and you play three way poker for the prize. I recently tried it at PokerStars. Here is what happened. My first table, I was dealt QQ almost instantly, which of course in itself is bullshit. Stacks were 500. So I raised, and nice healthy raise to eliminate at least one player I had hoped, but no, as per usual, it doesnt matter how many players there are, they get dealt premium hands a lot more often than is believable. So I raise my queens, get two callers. Flop comes 6-2-10. Shitfire, I instantly go all in so that they KNOW I am VERY strong. So, as per usual, THEY BOTH CALL. One player has A-10, another has K-6. Right away I know what’s coming. I looked at the stack sizes, and as per usual, the bigger stacks can call raises with any bullshit hand. They are favored. Big stacks. They favor the big stacks in order to make the tourneys end faster, to make the losing players have to pay to enter another tournament. So yeah, they both hit part of the flop to keep them in the hands. K6 certainly knew his pair of sixes were NOT GOOD HERE. But of course, he had the big stack. So, turn comes, and of course, it’s the king. Im out. I have the screenshot. He took two out with horseshit poker. The way its setup to get more money out of the players faster.
Next tourney, I’m dealt A3 right away. Of course I am. I raise pre again. Again, both players call. I hit nothing on flop of course, but, I figure my hand may still be good, after all, MY OPPONENTS ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO HIT THE FLOP 32% OF THE TIME. But, no. He had KQ, like, as if I can raise a hand three ways and expect folds to take the blinds no? He hit two pair but he was only betting the minimum so I called him down. Two pairs. Next hand, I have about 350 left, I am dealt AQ. They just cannot wait to get you out of these tourneys. So, I go all in. And of course, to nobodies surprise, the BIG STACK THAT JUST BEAT MY A3, HOLDS 88. Soon as I saw that, I knew I was done. Exactly. Of course he has 88 right, stupid of me to think I could dump three ways and get two folds, right? And of course, I hit NOTHING, and the big stack puts me out again. Good job PokerStars. Criminals. By the way, those were the ONLY hands I played.
2. 888 Poker.
A complete disaster of a weekend of poker. I blasted 888 in emails so many times, with such vulgar language and threats, but, they NEVER KICKED ME OUT. So, I decided Im going to record my last day of poker at 888. It didnt take long. I entered a 20$ tourney and waited for a monster. Meanwhile, in chat, Im saying 888 is rigged. I had my text document open so I could type what would happen beside the poker software. Im dealt AK. BEFORE I BET, ON VIDEO, which unfortunately I lost in a hard drive crash, I said exactly this, FUCK YOU 888, I KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO FUCK ME HERE. I raised 3x pot. It went around, and then this one player calls me a chicken, and then goes all in. I call instantly. He has JK. Thats right, I PREDICTED MY LOSS BEFORE I BET MY AK, AND WAS PUSHED ALL IN BY JK. I Watched the board, expecting a J on the flop, but none came. I watched the turn, nothing, but, his stack was BIGGER than mine. So, you dont even need to read this because you KNOW the J came on the river. So, without hesitation, I cut the video with just that hand, with my prediction, and my river beat. I sent it to 888 customer support, and they KICKED ME OUT. I wonder why?
3. Full Tilt Poker.
Haha, beat after beat after beat. Insane shit. I blasted these guys in emails for YEARS, but, they never kicked my out. So, I join one of the 180 SNGs for a chance to advance to the next tourney, to win a spot on Poker After Dark, the TV show. I won the motherfucking tournament. But, and this one cemented my belief online poker is a scam. Before I could even check to see when the next tournament would be, as I was looking at the software, THEY KICKED ME OUT. They had to be watching me in order to close my account so quickly after I won this tourney, obviously they wanted no part of me being on TV, for one second.
4. Party Poker
Ok, this one is a free roll. Yeah yeah laugh all you want. They use the SAME SOFTWARE for the free rolls as they do for cash play. Some players miss these free rolls, and just sit there while their hands are whittled down by the blinds. So, I get dealt AK and everyone folds to me. I had the sitout on my left. This was the hand where he would be forced all in because of the blinds. So, I went all in in front of him as a bit of a joke. But, to nobodies surprise, like I would be able to dump AK and have a garbage hand to my left, yes? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA fat fucking chance in a rigged game. So they turn over his hand, and he holds 33. Online poker deals to the left. Its quite obvious. I mean what are the odds that a sitout on my left while I hold AK is going to have a pocket pair? But, it gets better baby. Thats right, the player who isnt even playing in the tournament, guess what? HE FLOPS FUCKING QUADS. Do you understand what the odds of this happening are? You would have be dealt cards, then, and this is impossible enough, you would have to choose the hand that has the pocket pair, nearly impossible. And, then you would have to flop QUADS. I BET YOU EVERY POKER PLAYER FOR THE REST OF HIS EXISTENCE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO CHOOSE THE HAND DEALT TO HIM THAT IS GOING TO FLOP QUADS. Quadrillions of hands, I BET IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN.
5. Ultimate Bet.
Tourney, down to the last three. Im dealt AA. Pffffft. I raise, guy on my left calls. Flop comes 6-3-9 and he goes all in before I could even read the flop. I call instantly, he has 66 and flopped trips, ok, this happens, but he went all in BEFORE any human player could read the flop. And you know, these pieces of shit want you out of the tourney, so the very next hand Im dealt AK. I go all in right away, and, the guy on my right calls instantly with K2. K fucking 2 after he just saw me take some care playing AA. Yep, turn is the two and Im out.
6. CD Poker.
This place makes me laugh. Im having another horrid weekend of play, Ive already lost twice with AA too AK. Second K on river BOTH TIMES. So, Im chatting telling the other players that online poker is rigged for the fish to keep them at the tables. They all laugh, oh nonsense, why would they risk that? At that VERY SECOND, I am dealt AA. It was like they were watching me chat. So I sit there, knowing exactly whats going to happen. Player to my right raises, and we have I believe it was 80 bucks each or whatever. So, BEFORE I PUSHED HIM ALL IN, I SAID IN CHAT, YOU THINK ITS LEGIT, WATCH THIS. I PUSH, HE CALLS INSTANTLY HIS WHOLE FUCKING STACK WITH A-10. YEP. A-10. AND WHAT DO YOU KNOW, I SAY WATCH THIS KNOWING IM ABOUT TO GET FUCKED, AND THE FLOP COMES 10-10-7. EXACTLY WHAT I SAID WOULD HAPPEN BEFORE I PUSHED THIS ASSHOLES A-10 ALL IN. SO THATS 3 INSTANCES IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF PLAY THAT I HAVE LOST WITH AA TO AX. BULL SHIT.
7. Betmost Poker.
I join, I deposit 20 bucks, and I play three MTTs. I finished 2nd, 2nd and 7th, and I won 800 bucks. I withdrew 700 and left 100 to play with. I didn’t make money on this site again for 2 fucking years. Why? Because I withdrew my money. I was getting raped every god damn hand I touched. I was in first postion, and I was so tired of getting fucked, I had AA, so instead of giving the software the chance to fuck me, I went all in. It went around to the last player, and he hesitated and hesitated until his clock was at 1 second, and then he calls. He had 55. Ok fine you wanna call a dump from first spot with 55, thank you very much. So, the flop comes, of course the first card I recoginize is the 5 that flopped. I was about to blow, and I saw that I had also flopped trip aces. But, of course, as per usual, the online poker cheating machine took over, and the turn was the fourth five. How the fuck do you go from finishing top ten in three straight tourneys, to not ever getting to the money again at this site? I suddenly forget how to play? Nope, its rigged to punish people who withdraw money. Period.
8. Poker Room.
Tourney. MTT. 5 left. I get dealt AQ, I raise get one caller. Of course, the ace flops and I go all in, and he calls instantly with his A9. He had one club. Flop had two clubs, but he is in horrendous shape, but hey, HIS STACK IS BIGGER. So of course que the running clubs, and Im out. Whatever Poker Room I still won 150 bucks. Next night, SAME TOURNAMENT, 5 LEFT. I get dealt guess what, AQ. I raise. I get one caller. And like as if the Ace isnt going to flop right, the ace flops, I go all in, he calls INSTANTLY with guess what? Thats right, A9. He is FUCKED. Oh, not hes not, he hits a running gutshot straight, Im out. Same as the night before, EXACTLY the same hands, and running cards to put me out, HE HAD A BIGGER STACK.
Of course, this is just a small sample of what happens online. This was off the top of my head. This is CONSTANT online, ESPECIALLY the big stacks winning with hands they should have folded pre flop. It happens ALL THE TIME. JUST WATCH AN HOUR OF ONLINE POKER AT ANY POKER ROOM, AND YOU WILL SEE HOW THE BIG STACK IS ABSOLUTELY FAVORED TO TAKE OUT THE SMALLER STACKS, FOR TOURNEY QUICKNESS. IT IS ESPECIALLY BAD AT POKER STARS.
They deal to the left, I cant remember the last time I took the blinds with a pre flop raise, no matter how many players were at the table. They ABSOLUTELY deal to the left, making the players holding raisable hands think they can take the blinds without a flop. This was proven to me IN SPADES when that SITOUT flopped QUADS while I held AK.
The starting hands, jesus christ. What a joke. I can sit at PokerStars anytime and EVERYTIME within the first 5 hands, I get something raisable, and playable. EVERY TIME. No matter how many players are at the table, no matter what the stakes are, it is a JOKE. I often go ENTIRE fucking tables LIVE without SEEING ONE PLAYABLE HAND. It sometimes takes me 2 god damned hours to get something playable. Online poker is BULLSHIT.
I am debating HARD whether or not to try it again, I havent played for money in years. I am going to start recording all my play. I just dont know if I want to waste my money doing this.
I watch the pros on TV, and holy fuck, they get up and dance around and say SICK, when they see a beat, and this is just NORMAL play for ONLINE POKER. I laugh at them, saying that is NOT SICK, it happens ONLINE ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
Yep. Online poker is a scam. I should be RICH by now. Im NOT BRAGGING. IM NOT THE BEST POKER PLAYER AROUND, BY ANY STRETCH. BUT I KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT POT ODDS AND PERCENTAGES THAT I KNOW I AM GETTING FUCKED.
YEAH YEAH, YOU NEED A BILLION FUCKING HANDS TO SAY THIS, BULLSHIT. YEAH YEAH, THATS POKER. BULLSHIT. I TALK IN CHAT TELLING EVERYBODY HOW RIGGED ONLINE POKER IS, AND A LOT OF THEM CHALLENGE ME TO A HEADS UP MATCH, SAYING I SUCK, ETC ETC. YEAH, AND THEN AFTER I CLEAN THEM OUT, THEY DISAPPEAR SO FAST I THINK THEY DISLOCATE THEIR HIPS.
THE PROS KNOW IT TOO. AND THEY DONT GIVE A FUCK BECAUSE THEY GET PAID TO WEAR THE FUCKING POKER STARS SHIRTS WHILE THEY PLAY ON TV…..
THIS IS CONSTANT ONLINE. ABSOLUTELY CONSTANT. THEY DO NOT AUDIT THE CARDS AFTER THE SHUFFLE. WHAT % DOES THE BIG STACK WIN ONLINE, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE WITH LIVE BIG STACKS? I BET ITS PRETTY MASSIVE A DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF POKER PERCENTAGES.
Its funny. You can go on Youtube and watch Danny Negreanu play online. Its funny, because when he plays, YOU DONT SEE HIS HANDS GETTING RAPED AGAIN AND AGAIN LIKE YOU SEE WHEN ITS JUST THE REGULAR JOE PLAYING THE GAME. HE RAISES HIS QK, THERE IS NO ACE ON HIS LEFT, THERE IS NO POCKET PAIR ON HIS LEFT. EVERYBODY FUCKING FOLDS. I WONDER WHY THAT IS?
This might not sound like much, but Ive been playing for 15 years, and I see the patterns, I see that hey, on a live table, when DANIEL CAN FOUR BET PRE FLOP HIS FUCKING A3, AND WIN THE POT UNCONTESTED. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYONE FOUR BET PRE FLOP ONLINE WITH A3 AND HAVE IT BE THE BEST HAND? NO, YOU HAVENT, AND DONT SAY YOU HAVE. I GET DEALT AQ ALL THE TIME THREE WAYS AND RUN INTO AK, POCKET PAIRS, ITS A GOD DAMNED JOKE.
SO, IT IS WITH A BIG HEARTY FUCK YOU ONLINE POKER THAT I LEAVE YOU WITH THIS TOO PERUSE. I DONT GIVE A SHIT IF YOU BELIEVE IT, I DONT GIVE A SHIT IF YOU SAY I SUCK, I KNOW WHAT I SEE, I KNOW I CAN PLAY, I KNOW IVE READ ABOUT POKER, WATCHED IT, FOR 15 FUCKING YEARS.
I HAVE NEVER, EVER, EVER SEEN SOMEONE FOUR BET A3 ONLINE. YOU CANT EVEN ONE BET AQ FOR FUCK SAKES. YOU WILL GET CALLED DOWN BY EITHER AK, A POCKET PAIR, OR A WEAKER ACE THAT WILL SMASH YOU.
I WAS IN TOTAL FUCKING SHOCK WHEN I SAW DANIEL FOUR BET A3 ON THE LIVE TABLE, IT WAS SO FOREIGN TO ME I HAD TO LAUGH. IM HOPING TO GET DANIEL TO READ THIS, BUT HIS ATTITUDE IS, ONLINE POKER ISNT RIGGED, THE PLAYERS ARE JUST BAD. OH YEAH DANIEL? LOOK ONLINE. THERE ARE THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT ONLINE POKER. YOU ARE GOING TO TELL ME THAT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE COMPLAINTS CAME FROM SOMEONE WHO CANT PLAY?
NONSENSE DANIEL. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. STOP THESE CRIMINALS FROM RIPPING OFF THE PLAYERS.
GOOD DAY. MAY YOUR A3 FOUR BET GET SMASHED AS IT WOULD ONLINE.
Thank you for your comment, Dave.
By the way, if you wanna say I suck, haha, before the States pulled out, I won a SPONSORSHIP worth 5 grand of buy ins for a year. Finished 1st and 7th in two large MTTS for the sponsorship. Unfortunately for me, the States pulled out of online poker, and the company I won the sponsorship with had to DISAPPEAR. I got NO buy ins and my contract was voided.
How stupid are you of writing such a foolish review of how NOT online poker is rigged and manipulated.
What is abundantly clear is that the ingenious card systems used by online poker sites are designed in such a way to calculate all card possibilities for the remaining players in a hand thereby designed to not only retain a players participation in the hand but ultimately maximise the poker providers rake returns – in essence their systems are completely rigged and manipulated.
We think you should revaluate your findings accordingly because presently your findings are pretty far from the truth you foolish individual…
Hi Steven
Have you any proof for your claims? Or are you maybe just not playing good enough and losing money? Don’t you think it would be extremely complicated to design such a system that is able to consider all the dealt card probabilities? When certain cards or combinations would pop up too often then this could be easily spotted.
Marco tell me who pays you to write those BS?? Online poker is a JOKE, big joke. I will get it een further and say that i have notice strange accounts, going all in with cards like 46, 37, 25 pre flop (just about the perfect time that someone on the table has a pocket pair or AK) and hit straight, only it happens like 80% of the time. You see, they not only want maney to stay in the game and rake, they DEFINITELY have accounts on tournaments and steal prizes.
Thats the reson why i quit online poker and play 3 times more live tours instead now, and i am having way way way more profit and stoped getting sick and angry… SO GUYS quit online poker, they are stealers! there are tons of live tours and you will feel much better and more entertained!!
Any good player who played online knows its 100% rigged. The player with 5% odds of winning before the river hits a miracle card 50% of the time. Even when you have everyone to fold pre-flop. The only player calling you sucks out 50% of the time. They rigged the system to keep all the bad players around. Typical.
Same player flopping the nuts 3 hands apart! The same Pocket pair hittting quads THREE hands apart! 96% all-ins losing to bigger stack 46.3% of the time! Bigger pair shoves – 81% – losing 54.8 % of the time to bigger stack! I could go on, but if you can sit there and claim that a computer generated program cannot and wouldn’t be manipulated to maximize profits, some bogus agreement with a so called ‘auditor’ is unlikely, and there are no admin accounts being manipulated like ultimate bet scandal, then you’re just a paid stooge to keep up the charade. Buyins, rebuys and rake, oh my! Wake up! Signed, solid ROI live player!!!!
Hi Skypilot
Where are you playing online poker? Do you have a stats software running which tracks your “misfortune”? Then you should go with that proof to 2+2 and post it there.
And live poker is not the same as online poker.
I enjoy reading all the comments from people saying online poker is rigged and they still keep playing. “YOU’RE CHEATING ME!!! DEAL AGAIN!!!”
If it s not rigged, can you tell me why after i withdraw my winnings of $11000 (made from a 200$ deposit plus bonus), I can’t make a profit since 2011? I am also on -8000$. I clearly know how to play poker, I’m very good live, but online it’s just pure luck, rigged with bots and setup table. If you have seen some unrealistic flops, turn or rivers its because they are unreal. It is virtual poker. Just when I thought I’ve seen it all this Russian guy at a Sunday million table, from the beginning he is all in for six time in a row and he win every single time beats my AA with 62s and then he is moved to other table. What was more crazy was that people calling him with shit cards. You don’t do such thing in a big tourney only if you are a bot. Stay away from online poker! It’s sick and disgusting. I quit!
Recently while playing a PokerStars play money knockout tournament I witnessed the same exact flop same exact cards same exact suits back to back. I folded the first hand after the flop. When that hand finished I was dealt junk so I mucked it and the flop came up identical. I had to quickly check the hand history for the previous hand to see and sure enough it was true. Couple that with the constant quads I see in the same 9 seater game and yeah it just doesn’t ever seem random anymore.
Again just now in a 9 player knockout table. I’m 5th and short stacked. Constantly dealt awful hole cards. Folded a 7:9 and would have made a full house if I didn’t fold them preflop. So blinds are 50/100 and I’m at 250. I finally get dealt QQ. And go all in after a 100 chip call ahead of me. Others fold and he calls the next 150. I’m up against 10/Jo. Flop is 9-3-Q. Hit my trips but knew he’d still win. Turn is a K and I’m out. Why let me hang around when I can be eliminated and buy back in on another table. When this happens I put down the game for a week and revisit. Then I usually win tourney after tourney.
With QQ you lose one in seven times against JTo, so that was bad luck. Ending up with just 250 chips at 50/100 however was probably not optimal play. You should push all-in earlier (with more chips -> more fold equity) and at least try to grab the blinds.
This is all bull crap Ive been watching poker on tv for 10 years never once seen a set of quads, I see them every day playing for free on Pokerstars. I had two sets of quad 8s in a row myself 3 days ago. I folded one but it was there? Who would believe three 8s would come out after you just had a set of quad eights. I have never seen a straight flush ever but on this site quads are as likely as 3 of a kind.
Too many big hands getting beat for it to be legit. Straight flush over quads happens very rarely in live play, yet seems to happen a lot online. Full boats beat to quads, full boats over full boats, sets beat to flushes happens hourly online for fucks sake. 7 years later after getting through the stage where they were getting called out massively about their disgusting ways, they are much much worse today, no one around to call them out on it anymore, they either got bored of trying to bother or they got paid off by the sites they were targeting. Compared to 7 years ago its a lot worse now imo.
This argument has been going on since the first site opened. There are a lot of people that swear up and down that the games are not rigged, even after several sites have faced indictments. Some poker sites such as WSOP offers stats of a players performance which includes a history of a players best hand and the total of hands the player has played. On inspection of the data provided it soon become evident that almost every players best hand comes far quicker than what the mathematical odds are to receive this hand. From my experience of playing one thing becomes evident, too many “All-in”s equals too many “Bad Beats”. It appears the sites have incorporated triggers to prevent the better poker players from cleaning out the novice players.
Anyway that’s my 2 cents worth.
Yesterday a player went all-in and got called on it. The all in player had 6 4 offsuit and the caller had JJ. Up popped another pair of sixes. The next hand, the all-in guy folded.
So I’m wondering what he could possible have in his hand this time that’s worse than the 6 4 off he played all-in last hand.
A few hands later, he goes all-in with 8 4 off against AK suited and guess what? He gets a full house. Next hand he folds again.
Same table a little later, different player goes all-in with Q 8 offsuit against KK. He gets quad Queens. The odds of this happening are around 9800/1 or 0.01%.
I’ve heard of bad beats but this is ridiculous.
Hi Rob
Yes, the preflop probablility to make quads with a queen is about 1/10’000. But that’s not relevant.
You have to look at the probability of Q8o winning vs KK. And that’s about 1/7.
So while that player clearly made a mistake with his push, it wasn’t extremely unlikely that he would win against KK. It was just very unlikely to make quads.
What limit were you playing?
i cant understand why every online poker website eventually starts to go broke when the make money in every game played plus there casino and betting stuff should net fortunes so theres alot of people stealing alittle but the biggest people stealing alot and at the end of the day every one point fingers and walk away. PERFECT
How is it that suited cards win so often at online poker, even trash suited cards like 9-5 or 4, 8-3 and even 7-2? Suited cards win way more than they should at these online sites and there’s NO WAY YOU CAN SAY THAT IT ISN’T RIGGED TOWARDS SUITED CARDS!
Also maybe it’s just me but at Zynga I’ve been playing for about a year and there’s one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb and drives me absolutely NUTS, I’VE NEVER-EVER WON WHEN I FLOPPED 2 PAIRS, >>>>>N-E-V-E-R<<<<80% of the time and most of those times it’s by two shitty suited cards that shouldn’t even be in the hand!
Then there’s the WORSE BAD BEAT OF ALL TIME, @ a $500mil BUY-IN table I had A-A and was OOP so I went ALL-IN(as I always do with A-A) and got 4 callers at a 9 seat table,(once the hand was over) I saw there 3 legit hands 9-9/ 10-10/ J-J and K-K. The flop was A-7-7 so like anyone would I figured I had the hand won because at this site it didn’t show the cards until after the hand was over, even ALL-IN hands. So the turn is a Q(I remember because it didn’t help anyone), now the river and it’s a 7 and the POT starts going to the guy to my left who BTW insta-called my ALL-IN, it flips over everyones cards and I see the 3 legit hands and he has a 7-2 off, and HE CALLED AN ALL-IN, UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!! HTF do you call an ALL-IN at a $500mil buy-in table with ANY 7-2?
And all these things are just the tip of the iceberg, I haven’t even mentioned all of the “FILL-IN-THE-BLANK” hands and the percentage of times HUGE pocket-pair get hammered by TRASH HANDS, etc, etc, etc. These sites are to reflective of what happens on “EDITED” TV programs, they make it so every hand has to be won on the turn or the river, WHAT BS!
What it all boils down to is there isn’t ANY explaination for way too many things that happen in online poker especially with the frequency in-which they happen and since there isn’t that many coincidences that could happen in the entire world then YES IT IS RIGGED! Maybe not in some of the ways stated in the article but make no mistake YES online poker IS RIGGED!!! So much so and I’ve seen it happen so often that I now call it “REWARDS FOR RETARTS POKER” but people must love it because they just keep growing! I know I’ve went from playing about 20-30hr/wk to maybe 2 or 3hrs, I don’t need the aggravation!
Play in the best possible way and it will pay off long term.
Let those 7-2 guys call your all-in, they will lose long term.
And obviously, you should try to play on more serious poker sites with stakes of more than $5. Poker is a totally different game there. Going all-in preflop with AA will just earn you the blinds, because all other players will fold.
Almost all the poker rooms are rigged. To find out if a site is rigged you don’t have to analyze millions of random hands but you have to analyze only certain condizions: the heads up when the bigger player stack starts with the weakest hand. You will see that the statistics do not return at all.
Online poker is most certainly rigged. Numerous sites have been caught cheating. I’ve been playing for over 50 years and playing online poker since it began. Real money or play money it is rigged. I’ve charted hundreds of thousand of hands. While an open ended straight seldom hits any regular online poker player is astounded by the number of inside straights filled. Poker bots are used in tournaments. Time after time a bot will win every hand playing them 1 on 1 with only 2 players left. The probably odds of someone with 10,000 chips coming back without losing a single hand against someone with 5 million chips is beyond calculation. Yet it happens over and over again. And I am not a loser complaining. I’m 3.4 billion ahead on the WSOP site without every buying a single chip. I can no longer play for real money online because I retired to a state who won’t allow you to do so. So I play play money and real money on the weekends at local casinos. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that online poker is rigged. I play totally different live vs online. Online I just look for which pattern they are in. I.E. Flush pattern, full house pattern. And I win. But it’s not poker. Just something to kill time for a retired person.
Playing live for real money vs playing online for play money are definitvely two different pairs of shoes. Good luck at the tables!
Hey Guys,
The RNG audits DO pass…. here is the reason everyone overlooks….The RNG only looks at the probability of cards coming out on the community without looking holistically at everyone’s hole cards….Community cards looked at without the context of hole cards pass the sniff test. This is how they do it.
You forgot an important and very testible one: Online poker is rigged because you win far fewer times than you would expect to if you always played through to showdown. I’ve tried this at low stakes tables with play money. I merely call but never raise, and I play through to showdown unless it’s plain on the board that I cannot possibly win. At a split-pot game with 6 players, in 100 hands there’d be 200 half-pots you’d expect to win 1/6 of them if you call through to showdown. That comes to 33 pots, rounded, yet I have won fewer than 10 half-pots the last 3 times I’ve tried this experiment. I understand that there is survivorship bias in that the people who don’t fold have better hands, but that doesn’t matter for purposes of my experiment because the people who stay would have beat my hand anyway, even if the weaker hands folded early. In fact, it makes my point even more strongly. Any explanation for this?
You should know all the hands and then enter them in a poker probability calculator. Only that way you could know if you are getting “cheated”.
But why should a poker room let you loose “too often”? That would mean that another player wins too often. Even if those were bots owned by the poker room, why should this happen on play money stakes? The poker room should rather do the opposite: let you win too often at the play money tables so that you think you are a good player and start playing for real money.
But to just test your assumption: Go all-in preflop with playmoney, take a screenshot of the hands that call you, and then compare the results you get with those from a poker probability calculator. Do this at least 100 times, and compare average win rates (effective vs calculated).
Absolutely it’s designed to present better hands on a consistent basis.
Just finished playing on a site and I won’t return. 4 of the last 6 winning hands were A high flush, Q high flush and two K High flushes. Top pair never won in the last hour. 2 pair is about the minimum hand you’d even bet into.
I am an international PRO gambler for over 50 years. I have designed & written many engines simulating every possible game including Binary options. So I can tell all of you for a fact the following golden rule-EVERY GAME RUNNING ON ANY COMPUTATIONAL DEVICE IS RIGGED- including those harmless ones that MS puts out like Hearts etc. The only game I ever found that was not rigged was Hearts on Yahoo with 4 live participating players. This excellent platform has unfortunately terminated. Many ask why would MS rig simple fun games. The answer is obscure for those who are not programmers and have not ‘coded’ in a large Software shop. These SW factories are littered with propeller heads who suffer from every possible inferiority and self esteem complex so they get a sense of power by rigging the games. I know. I am Ph.D in com sc and have managed many SW operations and encountered these malcontents. Why do online casinos rig? Don’t be obtuse. There is money flowing here so everything is possible. Try this with any online gambling game including Binary Options. Bet small continuously for several hours and then suddenly start doubling up when you lose. Now watch how you lose every hand for ‘n’ hands. Stay away -go brick & mortar
Tony Nelson
PS I forgot to mention the following. Perhaps as an exercise research the ‘drop’ & and payout ratio from slots in the old mechanical days compared with the ‘drop’& payout ratio with today’s S/W-Chip arrangements- your eyes will widen.
Hi Tony
Thanks for stopping by!
We are not sure what you mean by “rigged”. In casino games, the casino operator will always win in the long term, because that’s how the rules of the games are constructed. In slots, the RTP (return to player) can be measured and is often even shown. It’s usually between 97% and 99%, so in the same area as roulette and blackjack. That’s why we think playing casino games offers only limited fun.
On the other hand, in poker, you play against other people. If you are good enough to beat them plus pay for the rake, you can even earn money. Not sure why poker games should be rigged as the casino earns it’s money with the rake.
Rigged means exploiting the gaps in the statistics. House returns are a mean over an extended period. Periodic manipulation of the statistics is averaged out so that such manipulation is hidden. By your own words the performance of slots in most casinos is 98% which means the machines are programmed to retain 12%. (I know I programmed many). Such retention blatantly implies non randomness. I am not citing this as an example of criminality but as an example of the difference between a totally random event and a conditioned system. The presence of a zero on the Roulette wheel was put there by Pascal for the exact reason and its occurrence is reasonably random and not preprogrammed in the context of programming.The same applies to BJ subject to the house rules regarding house advantage. A very clear illustration of rigging can be seen in Binary Options. The usual feeds from markets may be several seconds apart which creates a window during which a broker receiving those feeds can move the higher-lower curve in any direction without disrupting the actual market recordings. You possibly misread my comment.(1) I am a Com Scientist and was heavily involved in SW engines for online games and my comments refer to ONLINE GAMBLING-‘EVERY GAME RUNNING ON ANY COMPUTATIONAL DEVICE IS RIGGED’-(2)I made reference to Yahoo Hearts being non-rigged for the reasons you cite regarding poker(2) .TN